🏄Fear To Purpose: unlocking your potential with Mindset Training Toolkit from Big Wave Surfer Matt Bromley.

What happens when the thing you're most afraid of is also the thing that gives your life the most meaning?

Matt Bromley chases storms for a living. Literally.

He tracks weather systems forming across the globe, and when the wave looks big enough, he flies in, straps on an inflation vest, and paddles into waves three to seven storeys tall.

Besides getting all the titles you can imagine in the Big Surfer World - Matt spent almost 20 years learning how to work with fear instead of around it to unlock more of his potential in this life.

In this episode, Matt takes us inside the mind of someone whose "office" can genuinely kill him — and the mental training that makes that survivable, and even purposeful. We talk about:

• 🌊 The wave that nearly drowned him at 17 — and the ride right after it that changed the entire direction of his life
• 🧠 "Visualizing the hero moment" — Matt's pre-storm ritual of rehearsing every sense of the outcome he wants, not the disaster he fears
• ⚡ Anxiety vs. excitement — why they're almost the same physiological state, and how the story you tell yourself decides which one you get
• 🫁 The unglamorous, boring prep work that makes all the excitement survivable — pool sprints, breath-holds simulating being pumped by a wave, and studying wave data like a meteorologist, because any big goal is 90% preparation and 10% glory
• 💭 Negative visualization, done right — why Matt rehearses worst-case scenarios only in training, and switches to pure confidence-building as the real event approaches
• 🎯 Fear-setting and compartmentalization — Angela shares her own toolkit (Tim Ferriss's fear-setting, the Navy SEAL trick of narrowing your focus to only what's directly in front of you) and a very relatable pre-skydive panic story
• 🧭 Matt's real "why" — the 62-year-old family surfing legacy, his brother's passing, and how that reordered his priorities to God, family, then surfing
• 🌪️ What's next — a possibly record-breaking El Niño season brewing for Hawaii, and Matt stepping into a brand-new kind of "big wave": coaching teen boys, imposter syndrome and all
• 🙏 The leap of faith at the edge of preparation — what Matt actually leans on in the seconds before paddling into a wave that could kill him

The quotable line that'll stick with you: "Our big moments of purpose lie on the other side of our fears."

And the one right behind it: "It's a privilege to feel pressure — that's really where the diamonds are made."

Whether you're facing a life transition, a big decision, or your own version of a 30-foot wall of water — this conversation is a masterclass in preparing your mind for the moments that matter most, wrapped into genuinely moving real-life stories.

🎧 Tune in for a conversation that's equal parts adrenaline and mindset science.

👤 About Matt Bromley

Professional Big Wave Surfer, Matt Bromley chases storms for a living, surfing some of the largest waves on the planet. 3x invitee to the Eddie Aikau Invitational, 8x cover boy of various local and international surf magazines, 2x South African Surfing Captain and enthusiastic storyteller, Matt's passion is to empower people and their businesses to ride their big waves.

Let's dive in!!! 🏄

https://www.mattbromleysurf.com/

Instagram: @mattbromleysurf

https://www.youtube.com/@MattBromleySurf

Transcript

Why Big Waves Matter

SPEAKER_02 0:09

Hello and welcome back to Change Wired Podcast. My name is Angela Shorina. I'm your host and your health mindset executive life coach through 60, someone who is absolutely dedicated to learning more about, unlocking, figuring out how to use more of our potential and live life with purpose. And that is why I've been super excited and been looking forward to share this podcast for a while now. My guest today chases storms for living. And I don't say that often, not metaphorically, quite literally. He tracks his weather systems where big waves are forming. And then he gets on a plane, often landing the night before, and pedals out to serve them. Three, four, even seven stories high kind of waves. My guest's name is Matt Bromley. Someone who is from South Africa, where I've been reciting for the past three years of my life. Someone who is a kind of a surfer who can be only compared to a multiple Olympic champion if that kind of sport was in Olympics. Matt is someone who has spent almost 20 years training his mind and body for moments most of us will never choose to come close to. And here is why I wanted Matt on this show. This episode isn't really about surfing at all. It's an episode about fear and everything that's on the other side of it, which actually quite a lot might be the most meaningful things. When I heard Matt speaking at one of the entrepreneurial events in Cape Town, I heard this phrase our big moments of purpose lie on the other side of our fears. And when I heard this, I instantly wanted to lean in and learn more. And most importantly, I wanted to understand how Matt manages his mind. So he leans into that fear a lot more than regular people. So he gets to live his most meaningful and purposeful life. We get into how Matt uh prepares for his big-wave surfing events, and we focus a lot not just on physical training, though there is plenty of that and it's important, but his mindset training that captivated me. How Matt visualizes what he calls his hero moments before every big surf. How he learned to catch his stories that his own mind tells him under pressure, that are not only the stories that are helpful to do his best in life-threatening situations. Matt talks about how he learned to rewrite them in real time and how he learned to move from anxiety into excitement, which it turns out are almost the same feeling in the body. And the difference is entirely in the story we choose to believe, we choose to tell ourselves. How Matt's stepping into a completely new kind of big wave, uh coaching teenage boys on imposter syndrome and all kinds of diseases, quote unquote, of the mind. Which makes him, as he honestly admitted, just as nervous, if not more, as some of the big waves he serves. If you ever stood on the edge of something that scared you, a decision, a conversation, a version of your life you haven't quite stepped into yet, I think you're going to see yourself in this conversation. Even if you've never seen a wave bigger than what breaks on your local beach, and most importantly, you're gonna learn how to train your mind, how to train your internal dialogue, your mindset, which then conditions your body and everything that you're gonna do, so that you step in into more moments of your fear. So then you get to live the most purposeful, extraordinary, unlocking the most of your potential kind of

Matt’s Origin Story At Dungeons

SPEAKER_02 5:20

life. So let's get into it. Here is my conversation with Matt Bromley. Matt, uh, welcome to Change Word Podcast. So excited to have you here.

SPEAKER_00 5:31

Thank you so much. I'm really excited to be here too.

SPEAKER_02 5:33

Minnie, let's start with a little bit of backstory because probably not everyone on this podcast knows who Matt Bromley is. Could you tell our listeners? Uh yeah. So who are you? Uh what do you do in the world? How did it all start it?

SPEAKER_00 5:49

So I'm a proud father and husband. I have two kids, a three-year-old and a five-year-old. I live in Komiki, which is about 45 minutes south of Cape Town. And yeah, I'm a professional big wave surfer. So I track storms that are going forming around the world. And when it looks like they're going to produce really big waves, then I fly over and I often land the evening before. And then I have a media team with me, and we document these big swells. We surf these big waves and create movies and uh media. And yeah, I'm also now in the speaking game, so I do quite a bit of public speaking, and I'm also entering the coaching space as well. At the moment, I'm I work with teen teen boys, and yeah, that's a little bit about me.

SPEAKER_02 6:36

Well, I don't know what not often do I get to talk to someone whose profession is big wave surfer, right? It's quite a quite a title, probably not so many people in the world doing that. But how did it come to be? Uh like when did it start? How long have you been doing that?

SPEAKER_00 6:56

Well, great. I grew up in Komiki, which is a really great kind of place to be to get into surfing and also into big wave surfing. Like I I was in a house on the beach, and right about a kilometer out to sea, there's a there's a big wave called sunset, which gets up to the waves get about three, four stories high out there. They get they get huge. And from when I was very young, I could see those big waves breaking out there and people surfing it. And but at the time growing up in at school, I thought I would never do that. It just looked really cool, but it was almost like the vision was paved there before me. And my dad, he's been surfing now for 62 years. So he started when he was 10. And he would drag me out to to surf some of the slightly like I would say the medium-sized waves. And from a young age, I was I really enjoyed pushing myself in in those bigger waves, and yeah, so little lots of little stepping stones, getting into it early and working my way up, and suddenly I find myself out at dungeons, which is the really big wave we have off Hot Bay. It delivers some of the biggest waves in the world. And I had my first session out there when I was 17 years old and had a very bad experience. I got I got five huge waves crashing on my head that I felt like I was close to drowning, and I actually was going to get out of the water, get back on the boat, and have nothing more to do with big wave surfing. And while I was paddling to get out of the water, I caught the the biggest wave of my life at that time. And it was such an incredible ride for me, an experience, and that kind of opened up the whole door for me of big wave surfing. And from that moment onward, really, I started to train and prepare mentally and physically uh for big waves. And when I mean big waves, it's I'm chasing these waves that are three stories up to seven stories high. That's so hard to imagine, even. Yeah, it is it is hard to imagine. It's like a moving mountain of water, yeah. And we're trying to catch these things.

SPEAKER_02 9:07

And was it the moment the uh you know when you were 17 years old? Like what when was that moment that you realized, you know, this is the thing that I'm doing it that I'm doing for life? Like, how did that happen? How did that, I don't know, feel? Because so many people, the reason I'm asking also, so many people are looking for you know, these days for purpose, for meaning, for like their thing, and they're not sure often how to approach that, and how do you know if that's like the thing? How did it happen for you?

SPEAKER_00 9:39

Yeah, I mean, it's for me, it was it it took a quite a radical experience, I think, as I as I mentioned, like I felt like I was gonna drown, you know, and and then suddenly I had that incredible ride. I I I strongly believe that we all created for a purpose, and a lot of people have differing differing beliefs on that, but I think I would have found my way to it eventually if it wasn't even for that one session. But yeah, it's uh even when I grew up, I was I was surfing smaller waves and competitions, it was all you're getting judged on tricks and things, and I enjoyed the surfing, but I felt like my passion wasn't really coming alive, and so I carried on searching, and then I think I really found it in in big wave surfing. And yeah, I think a lot of us like our our passion, it's it's it's powerful within us, and I think a lot of the time maybe we're scared to take those steps towards finding our passion, but I think a lot of us know what it might be, but maybe there's things that are holding us back from moving into that space. And I understand like people want security, they want the comfort of a I don't maybe even it's like a well-paying job, you know, or consistency. But yeah, I think a lot of us know where maybe our purpose lies, but sometimes we're scared to maybe answer the questions of how do we get there, or what is it, what does that life look like living in that purpose?

SPEAKER_02 11:03

And you talk a lot about you know, fear, and you have this quote also that I love our big moments of purpose lie on the other side of our fears, right? Can you speak more about that? I guess what I'm trying to also maybe talk more about is that sometimes people think like, well, if that's my thing, I would just feel like doing that all the time, you know.

SPEAKER_03 11:25

It's just gonna be this joyful experience. Um can you talk to that? Yeah, why you uh why you speak so much about fear and this like notion that no, actually your purpose might be the very the most scary, the scariest thing that you get to do.

SPEAKER_00 11:41

Sure. Yeah. Well, I mean, a good example of that is people ask me, what is what's your favorite wave to surf? And I always say, my favorite is this wave called Jaws in Hawaii. And it's I don't have fun when I'm there, but it's the place that I fear the most, but also the place I've had the most fulfilling moments, most purposeful moments of my life. The waves are huge and scary, but at the same time, with that, I've found this incredible sense of purpose out there riding those big waves. And I think that we're called to live a life that's really big. And in order to step into that life, we have to stretch ourselves. And as you mentioned, it's not gonna just be like, oh, I feel like doing this, it's gonna be fun and I'm gonna enjoy it. You know, it's not, I don't, it's really not like that. I found time and time again, I have to stretch myself, I have to encounter fear, and I've been surfing big waves for almost 20 years, and I still get really scared every time there's there's big waves coming, and I have to face fear, I have to grapple with it, I have to try and move through the anxiety. Like one of the things I talk about, moving from anxiety into excitement, and I really have to grapple with it, and then once I get to the other side of that, that's when I've had my biggest moments of breakthrough, caught my that big wave that I wanted. But in surfing, but also in other parts of my life, I found time and time again I've had to really, really face fear and move through it. And then on the other side, I found my best moments and my big moments of purpose. So it doesn't, I don't think it just falls into place naturally. I think it takes a lot of effort, being intentional, but also definitely leaving our comfort zone and going into a new space, which is which is scary.

SPEAKER_02 13:30

Yeah, well, you know, it is scary, and and for you, it's also very very much life-threatening, like literally, right? You can die there, and yet you uh overcome this, you know, fear over and over and over again, and you get back there. I think like what I'm curious about when how did you like the first time, and maybe you remember that, maybe

Purpose Lives Beyond Fear

SPEAKER_02 13:55

not, but you were faced with this fear, right? Why, how did you decide to get to that aside? And also like the follow-up question like, why do you think so many people stuck on this side get stuck, right?

SPEAKER_00 14:08

On the wrong side of it, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:09

Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 14:11

Yeah, well, I I'm I'm a very unlikely candidate for being a big wave surfer because even from a young age, I was always nervous of things and scared to try new things and shy with people, and I'm still very conservative by nature, so I I think I I didn't counter fear quite a lot being young because I was when I was younger, because I was just scared of a lot of things, but I started to see that as I I think there was a mix of being like fearful, but also a drive to achieve my full potential. I really I'm I'm very like disciplined and driven to really achieve my full potential. So that there were those two things at play in my life, and yeah, I was often feeling fear, and then I would most of the time I would actually let the fear get the better of me and I would shy away from situations. But then I think that experience with that I had at dungeons when I was 17 was a really big breakthrough moment for me, where that was the first time I felt real fear when I saw that 30-foot wall of water towering over me, about to crash on my head. And at the time I had no tools to deal with it. My adrenaline went through the roof and I was petrified, you know. Uh, that was the first time I really felt that deep fear, but then moving through that and then catching that that big wave, I found when I chose to face my fear, my purpose came alive. And that was, I think, a big moment for me. That it's not this this living a life of purpose is not gonna come easy. And that was a big shift for me. I think that fear is gonna be a part of the process over and over again. It's just you never people talk about overcoming fear, but I don't think you really do. I think it's always gonna be something knocking on the door, and yeah, we we've got to be prepared to to kind of keep moving forward, even though the fear is still there.

SPEAKER_02 16:10

Yeah, and you know, speaking of the process and the tools, in your talks, the Titan did one of them, you speak a lot about you know, strategies that you learn, that you that you follow, that you use to overcome that fear, to lean into that and to get on the other side of it, right? Can you share with people some of those strategies or maybe your whole process on that? Okay, how do you deal with fear these days? So it doesn't stop you and it doesn't sort of shrink your or worsen your performance, but instead like enhances you and maybe opens up the opportunity to uh to to to fulfill your purpose and do your best.

SPEAKER_00 16:53

Yeah, I mean, I think I'll I'll share two things that really help. The first one is visualization, and I I use a lot of visualization, and I kind of feel like the visualization takes me to the other side of my fear, and I think for a lot of us, we we focus on the size of the challenge, the size of the storm, the fear around it, the obstacles. I try to visualize what could be on the other side of that. So the reward, the opportunity, the big wave, whatever that looks like. And I I put myself there, I feel all the senses. I I if if for instance I'm going to this wave called Jaws, I will I will visualize my whole routine waking up in the morning and going down to the wave and the warmth in the air and the the ocean and the saltiness in the air and like the everything that's going on, I'll try to bring my senses into it, visualize every detail, and and I'll then I'll visualize my dream wave that I'm paddling into and I and I catch that wave and I'll visualize that dream wave over and over again. And that really helps me to kind of to get excited instead of thinking of that storm and just wanting to avoid it. Because my natural tendency when I think of a storm, I want to stay away from it. So my visualization really takes me to the exciting part of it, to the opportunity that's in it. And yeah, that that for me has been very helpful. So I call that visualizing my hero moment. And I think we would all kind of have some sort of hero moment that we can visualize in whatever we're doing. And then, yeah, the the other thing that I do is I really try to be aware of the the stories that I'm telling myself in my head and my internal dialogue. And I think so many of us are very unaware of the thoughts in our minds, and our thoughts are really the start that are that drives our emotion, and then our emotion drives our behavior and our decision making and our actions, and all the stories in our minds are so if they're so influenced by our upbringing, an experience we had last week, our siblings, parents, friends, where we live, what we believe, everything plays a part in shaping the stories then that we tell ourselves about challenges that we're facing. And I think if we're unaware of the stories we're telling ourselves, those stories might be totally wrong. And a lot of the time, the stories we're telling ourselves about situations are actually not true, and maybe, and it's often the worst case scenario that could happen. Uh, humans are are naturally very biased to uh, I mean, our instinct is trying to keep us alive. So any kind of threat really gets emphasized, and that becomes the focus, right? Because our body wants to keep us safe, our mind wants to keep us safe, but the chances are a lot of the time those stories are not gonna happen. So being aware of the stories in my mind and trying to reframe that story into a positive story. So for instance, it might look like I might be telling myself, I can't do this, the waves are gonna be too big for me, I shouldn't be here, and then I have to reframe that and I'll say, I actually I was born for this and I've trained for this, and I'm ready for these big waves that are coming. So every thought that comes in, I'll try by being aware of it, I can catch it, and then I can reframe it into a positive thought. And I'm really trying to move from a state that of anxiety, which is my normal place where I live in the face of a challenge and move into excitement. And I found that excitement is for me, it's the best mood, the best emotion for performance. So I try and build excitement before a big challenge.

SPEAKER_02 20:42

Yes, and excitement, and I guess what I'm hearing also approach, not avoid kind of emotion. And I often find myself like in a matter of seconds, if I decide to like take action and decide I'm excited, I'm getting into that, my mind immediately starts like creating solutions and ideas about how to best approach it, right? Let's say public speaking, okay, how can I engage the audience? Like, where should I look? Like understand. Whereas when I'm sort of doubting and anxiety and thinking about what can go wrong, my mind is like, okay, how can I get back to safety as fast as possible, right? Which is not really helpful.

SPEAKER_00 21:23

And we want to just avoid that whole situation entirely when we think like that, right?

SPEAKER_02 21:28

Yeah, I guess what I'm what I'm trying to say is like the mind, it's it's gonna be on your team depending on what sort of you choose to focus on. Like let's say I'm deciding I'm in goal mode and it's time to take action. So the mind will figure out the best way to prepare you for that. And if you're still choosing, sort of or living an option of not doing that, that's where the mind, okay, let's stay in the comfort zone, let's save the energy, let's save our, I don't know, well being resources, and comfort.

SPEAKER_00 21:58

But um Just on that, on that topic, like I I used to think that I would naturally, my mind would naturally try and prepare me for scary situations or for big challenges. But I found that my mind is actually not preparing me, but it's trying to keep me away from storms and challenges, which are often the very things that we need in our lives to grow. So even though I was, I used to approach a storm and I would hope that my mind, I wouldn't take note of what's going on in my mind. I would think that I would my mind would naturally be working to get me ready for it. But I found even by not actively building a mindset, I was still building a mindset, but it was just a negative one because I still had thoughts and stories about what I was going into, and there was a mindset being built, which was which was not good for me. So by actively choosing the thoughts in my mind, and I'm actively building a mindset that gets me ready for it. So that was a quite a big shift for me to actively build instead of passively let things just happen.

SPEAKER_02 23:07

You know, I guess what I'm hearing is you become,

Visualization And Rewriting Self-Talk

SPEAKER_02 23:10

you know, you became really aware of a that the stories that you have in your head, they're not you, they're like, you know, just stories that come up for whichever reason, as you mentioned, you know, because of your life experience or somebody told you something, etc. And they just it's but but it's not like the whole you and the essence of you. And then the second thing I'm hearing is you realize at some point, hey, there is a choice. What stories do I focus on, what stories do I keep, what stories do I allow to sort of linger? And sure, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:46

The choices and those stories also they build neural pathways in our head, in our minds. So we we whatever stories we are running through our head over and over again, that's the that's the the highway that's built up in our in our brain. So that can also, if we have a lot of negative self-talk or or or an out negative outlook on facing challenges, there there would be a lot of work that needs to be done in our minds to try and build new neural pathways towards like a positive outlook.

SPEAKER_02 24:18

Yeah, I always, you know, it helps me to visualize those things as well. Like when I think of any thought pattern that I don't want to have in my mind, I always think about it like sort of a muscle that you build. And if it's if you flex it all the time, it's gonna get stronger. And if you don't do anything with that, it's gonna get weaker and weaker and weaker. And yeah, whenever I'm trying to change anything in my mind that I don't like that doesn't serve me, I'm always like, imagine, okay, this is my workout.

SPEAKER_03 24:45

Which one, you know, which muscle do I want to flex?

SPEAKER_00 24:48

Yeah. That's a good way to think about it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:53

The you know, the one other thing that I'm curious about, because I read a lot about that, is using negative visualization to prepare yourself for you know challenging moments or when things go wrong, or you know, when things uh don't sort of the outcomes are not the best you hoped for. Like, do you do any sort of that kind of visualization? Meaning going through the moments, well, I don't know, things go wrong and how you deal with that if that happens, which they say helps to sort of deal with stress because then you're ready for anything.

SPEAKER_00 25:32

So I I I visualize all the bad stuff long before the event. So while I'm training, I'm I while I'm saying if I'm in the swimming pool and I'm training for being held under the water, I visualize that whole experience of being held under by a big wave. And it's really not a nice place to be, you know, feels like you're in a washing machine and your your limbs feel like they're gonna get ripped off, and it's it's not a nice place to be. So I do I visualize that in my training and I take myself to those places that I don't want to be. But then once I see the storm or the event approaching, I will try to only visualize my hero moment because for I don't know if this this might just be a personal thing, but I need as much confidence and positivity that I can get. And as soon as I visualize bad stuff happening, worst case scenario, that is not good for me. So as long as I'm prepared for the the things that can go wrong, and that preparation has to take place long before, yeah, I'm prepared for it, but then I want to be in the most confident space I can be in. So I only visualize my hero moment leading up to it.

SPEAKER_02 26:46

Yeah, but but good, you know, I think it's good to talk about that. And I think we don't talk enough about those also visualizing and preparing for negative moments, which I believe actually one of the biggest parts of being able to then uh do our best and approach those challenging situations. Like I remember uh listening to something about, I think his name is Michael Phelps, who's like a swimming Olympic champion, and that he visualized every and trained for every single thing that can go wrong, like water getting under his glasses or like something else. And actually, at the one of the events, water did get into his glasses and he had to like deal with that and he still won the medal, right? And and from my personal experience also, whenever I'm about to like do public speaking or something, if I know that I can still do the thing without my slides when microphone is off and uh and that actually did happen, my clicker not working, etc. When I know that I still can do that, like that's where I'm in my flow.

SPEAKER_03 27:52

I'm like, whatever, you know, whatever I'll survive this thing.

SPEAKER_00 27:57

Sure. No, I think that's great to I think it's great to prepare for those, but again, I would say those that needs to be covered long in advance. Yeah, because I feel like I I feel like we all humans are kind of tending towards that we got we have self-critics and negativity bias, and I feel like in in in the at least in the days leading up to whatever we're going to be doing, that building a positive mindset is I found has been very, very important.

SPEAKER_01 28:30

Yeah, but sure.

SPEAKER_00 28:31

Be prepared for the worst, 100%, but do it long in advance.

SPEAKER_02 28:36

Well, but being prepared, by the way, can you also maybe tell us tell the listeners about your preparation, not just the visualization, but you probably do a lot in terms of, and I remember in your talk you mentioned some some of it, do a lot in terms of like physical preparation and you know learning how to control your biology, so you could again show up as your best on that wave. Like, can you can you speak more towards that? So people also like it's not like you you know decided to jump on a wave and it all worked out from there.

SPEAKER_00 29:08

Yeah, so I kind of have these non-negotiables of preparation, which is my physical training and my breath work. So, for instance, on that part, I would say things like some of the things I do, I'll get in the swimming pool, I'll get my I do sprints swimming to get my heart racing to mimic the adrenaline that I have in the big wave environment. And then I'll swim under the water for the length of a long hold down. So, how long that wave might hold me down at the longest. And while I'm swimming under the water, I visualize being pushed down into the darkness. I take myself through all the uncomfortable feelings of really needing to breathe, my chest burning, my heart racing, but I can't breathe until the wave lets me up. I take myself to those places over and over again so that when it happens in real life, I don't panic. So, yeah, breath work, physical training, that's one part of it. My making sure all my equipment is, I can trust it. Like my my I work with my surfboard shapers, and we've got an inflation vest uh when we surf big waves. So I can pull a cartridge and sorry, I pull a tag and it punctures a cartridge of compressed air and it will inflate around my body with air. Making sure all my equipment is ready. Some of the things in my mind that I talked about, visualization, self-talk, those are very important. And then also some of the things I do is I analyze the storms that are coming. So even a storm would seem like something that's so unpredictable, but there are patterns, and I compare the storms that I'm seeing to past storms, and I look at the numbers, I look at the energy, the swell heights, the direction of the swell, the wind, the tides, the dangers at each place that I'm going to. I even know, for instance, when I surf out of dungeons, it's just out my window here. Um, I know exactly which part of the hill and which bush on the mountain I'm going to line up with. That tells me how far left and right I am while I'm out there in the ocean. And I look sideways and I line up the slope of the hill and the other mountains behind it at Fishok, and I know exactly how far out to sea I am. So I'm I really try to build this whole foundation of readiness that I try, I ask myself, am I storm ready or am I not? And yeah, I try to have all these non-negotiables in place before I go into that storm.

SPEAKER_02 31:38

Yeah, I guess you know, it's also very important to learn about that because in different pursuits with a lot of unknowns and a lot of uncertainties, sometimes it feels or looks like from the outside that it's just, you know, you're sort of hoping for luck. But actually, yes, luck is always, you know, a factor, but also a lot of preparation and thinking and analysis goes into that. So you actually succeed more often than not, and you know get get out of it alive.

SPEAKER_00 32:08

Yeah, yeah, 100%. And and when we're prepared, our minds work so much better. You know, we have that underlying confidence. We almost feel like we deserve to succeed. If sometimes when we're not prepared, we just honestly feel like we don't deserve it, you know, and that can be so undercutting as what's our performance. So I really feel like all of the preparation is really to get my mind in the right place to go and perform.

SPEAKER_02 32:34

Yeah, it kind of you know reminds me, although obviously uh very different, when I rollerblade, when I finally like learned all the you know techniques and tricks, etc., that's where I finally could let go and my mind also could focus on the moment and addressing like the small issues that come up versus thinking about like how do I, I don't know, put my foot or how do I break, how do I not fall here, right? And I feel like in a lot of uncertain situations in life, it's like once you have mastery of those basics and you know where you are, you know your sort of terrain and everything, that's where your brain can actually now get into the situation and analyze things as they come up.

SPEAKER_00 33:15

Sure, yeah. And I think that that is a very important point. Like all of the other stuff becomes maybe second nature. You can even enjoy the moment a lot more, you can you can absorb all the things going on. And then also when things go wrong, you can you can remain calm and you can make good decisions, right? You can adapt and change as you need because you you prepared. And yeah, I've always felt like the more prepared I am, the more grit I have. So I have so much more resilience as well when I'm when things

Training For Hold-Downs And Readiness

SPEAKER_00 33:45

go wrong. If I'm prepared, that really helps a lot to be able to bounce back quicker as well.

SPEAKER_02 33:51

Yeah, I guess you know, as they say, also if you want to feel less fear in any situation, you want to just run through it, prepare and go through the experience as much as possible. So then that like whole experience becomes more of like, as you said, second nature and something that uh where you can feel almost like you're doing something out of habit, not just reacting on the on the spot.

SPEAKER_00 34:17

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 34:18

Yeah, you know, Matt, like besides obviously surfing, you do a lot of work that you already mentioned in terms of um trying to send a certain message uh into the world, right? You know, speaking now, you you you started doing coaching, and then you have a movie over the edge. Like, what's what's for you in doing all of this work? What are you trying to get into the world? Like, what's the message? What do you want people to sort of maybe do more of because of your work?

SPEAKER_00 34:53

Oh, it's a good question. I think that I'm trying to encourage people. One of the main messages that I also tell my boys is like my son will say, I'm scared, but I did it anyway. So yeah, to to to really like take heart and have courage. And I I think that nothing great or big will come will come to us unless we are willing to stretch ourselves. That fear is a part of the process, and if we want to do something significant, we really do have to put ourselves out there, we have to take risks, and hopefully those are those are good risks. Uh I think things like preparation and experience help us to decide when it's a good risk to take. But yeah, we really do. I believe we're all born with with gifts, with talents, and that we we should be using those to do something amazing with them. Whether whether we're doing something inspiring ourselves or we're using that to help other people, yeah, it's it's it's so important that we're proactive with life is so short, you know, and it's so so important to to go big, I think.

SPEAKER_03 36:08

Yeah, go big and you know, serve your big waves uh as the all we all have big waves in our lives, and I think uh we kind of all know what those are.

SPEAKER_00 36:19

So yeah, just an encouragement to surf your big wave, whatever that looks like.

SPEAKER_02 36:23

Well, speaking, you know, of those big waves that people that might be approaching people at different stages of their life, what would you recommend people to do? Maybe like step one, step two, step three, they are you know facing their big waves, whether that's work or relationships or maybe health or whatever that is, like what are the the first few things that you that you think people should should should do to to do it in the right way and to approach it and to have this beautiful transformational experience.

SPEAKER_01 36:55

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:59

I think that a good starting point is to is to be prepared, like for what know what you're going into, you know. Be prepared and um and that make sure that the the reward or the thing on the other side of it is worth it, is worth the effort, you know. I think a lot of people a lot of people unfortunately work or they do things, but they actually don't really know why they are doing it or what the purpose is, and they put a lot of effort into something but they don't know kind of why. So I think knowing what you're working towards, what's on the other side of the fear, what's on the other side of the challenge, that must mean something to you. That that needs to be important to you, and and that can also that can be very motivate motivating to get you through the tough times when you kind of have in mind the reward or the opportunity on the other side, being prepared for whatever coming your way, you know, there's no shortcuts, and you have to be disciplined and being prepared. And then yeah, accept that if you're gonna do something big, that that fear and anxiety is gonna be a part of it. And I think it's always good to acknowledge. We don't want to ever shove it down, acknowledge that it's there, feel all the feelings, be present with it, but then also acknowledge that it's that's not you, and and you can let that pass like a cloud moving through the air, and and you can reframe it into and build excitement in the face of it, yeah. Whatever you're facing. Yeah, I hope that that kind of helps a little bit. I was a bit all over the place.

SPEAKER_02 38:37

But no, still the no understanding, you know, the reason why you're doing that, so you know it's worth it because it's a huge factor, then being prepared, you know, knowing what you're getting yourself into. And are you prepared? Are you ready, right? You're not like gonna be surfing seven-story building tall waves without preparation, like that's not the thing. Um and then to yeah, accepting the fear as the thing that's gonna show up, and you're gonna need to deal with that and maybe uh figuring out how you're gonna deal with that when it shows up.

SPEAKER_00 39:09

Sure. And I also also just thinking on that, I think a lot of people will often feel a bit stuck or overwhelmed when they when they're thinking of a big thing that they want to do, but taking those first little steps towards it's also very important. Like I've had many moments when I mean that one story I spoke about in my in my talk when you were listening is I was I was crying, I was so fearful and overwhelmed, but I traveled all the way to Hawaii for the these huge waves, but I was so scared. But just taking that first step, that's that's the the the first little bit of of momentum, taking a step towards it and then taking another one. And and my my big wave journey has been a whole lot of little stepping stones that have brought me to in surfing on on the biggest stages around the world. So taking those little steps towards it in the right direction and being intentional about it has been very important for me.

SPEAKER_02 40:01

Yeah, you know, it reminds me of this phrase, how do you eat an elecond, like one bite at a time, right? And it also reminds me of one story, like a client recently told me about how she was afraid to let go of certain like operations in her company that she uh spent so much time building. And when I told you, well, you don't need to do like just one big chunk of you know all at once, just if you do it step by step, like you know, giving one task, then another task to a person and seeing how they handle it. So I feel like a lot of big things in life, if we just approach them like one small step at a time, they also actually trigger a lot less fear, you know. If you're like, okay, I'm just doing this step, I don't know, preparing presentation for the talk. I'm just practicing, you know, this in front of the mirror. When you like do it one step at a time, it's it's often like what I found a lot less scary.

SPEAKER_00 40:54

Yeah, I think it makes a huge difference because our brains naturally want to fly to the end and see the whole picture, and woof, it's a massive mountain to climb and it's it's overwhelming. Yeah, but yeah, taking those little steps, yeah, so good.

SPEAKER_02 41:10

Well, you know, speaking of big wave moments in our lives, in our careers, what's the next big wave for you now? What's the the next sort of scary thing that you're working on?

SPEAKER_00 41:21

Well, uh in in in a more like literal sense, the there's some, I think at the end of the year in Hawaii, there's going to be some really big waves because everyone's talking about this El Nino that's forming, and they're saying some people are saying it's going to be the strongest El Nino recorded in like a hundred years. And the last time we had a really strong El Nino, we had the best season in Hawaii in in big wave surf history. That was in 2016. And so yeah, I'm kind of mentally preparing and getting my boards ready for like riding hopefully the biggest wave of my life at the end of the year. And it is quite a terrifying thought, but if it does come, I want to be I want to be ready for it. So that's kind of next on my horizon. Yeah, I'm also leaning into the coaching space, as I mentioned, and that's been really, really cool. So I think that's a that's a new big wave for me that I'm trying to tackle and and and so much fear. Like I be when I've got a session coming up, I'm like, it feels like I'm going to surf like a huge, huge waves of dungeons, and I'm trying to get prepared for it, you know.

unknown 42:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:31

So that's also been been really cool.

SPEAKER_02 42:33

And so did you find the same process helpful that you use for writing big waves that uh yeah, applicable to coaching?

SPEAKER_00 42:43

Definitely some of the the same processes, but also it because it's such a new world to me, I don't have I do have a lifetime of of experience in the sense of of my felt experience and dealing with people around the world and all that stuff, but this is now a new space for me. So there's definitely a lot of imposter syndrome. I don't have that experience

Small Steps Toward Your Big Wave

SPEAKER_00 43:05

in in that field specifically. So there's a lot of like trading new ground, which which is very scary for me.

SPEAKER_02 43:12

Yeah, I think you you you said it right, like this like new ground is that is what often the scariest thing for us, no matter in what domain it is. Right.

SPEAKER_00 43:23

Definitely. What what are some of the what are some of the things you do when you're facing fear? How do you cope with it yourself? And what are some of your processes like?

SPEAKER_02 43:34

I think you know it's pretty much the same what you explained, in a sense that like I I also studied uh a lot of high performance psychology and like the process, and I coach a lot of people on going through difficult moments in their lives. And it's a visualizing okay, like what it is you want very clearly, what's the experience you're afraid of? You know, there is this phrase fear is a Mile wide and an inch deep. When you actually define your fear, like what exactly it is that you are afraid of, right? All of the details. And very often you'll find that actually what you're afraid of either very unlikely to happen, or I also invite people in, I do it myself. Actually, walk yourself through the worst case scenario. And for most of us, it's not dying, right?

SPEAKER_03 44:30

Are you still there? I think we yes.

SPEAKER_02 44:33

Yes, I am.

SPEAKER_01 44:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:34

Yes. So the looking into worst case scenario, what also Tim Ferris, like just uh one one of the sort of uh entrepreneurs thought leaders online, uh popularized fear setting, right? You look into the worst case scenario and you define that very clearly, like, okay, what is the worst case scenario? Then the likelihood of that. And then A, you think through all of the things that you're gonna do if that does happen. So, sort of like, okay, you know, if the worst storm, like the worst outcome, I'm gonna do X, Y, and Z. And then what can you do now to prevent that from happening and you take action steps in that? Let's say I'm about to do public speaking and I'm afraid that I don't know, my presentation is not gonna open up or like my clicker not gonna work, etc. Right. So I prepare for all of the situations and I have a game plan. And once I'm ready for all of that, and I also realize even if it's the worst case scenario, right? And uh I'll still be able to do most of the things, it's not that scary, and I have the solution. And after that, I'm not that scared because, like, what are you afraid of? Like for most of us, again, it's not your experience. We are not like, you know, riding waves and we're not about to be killed. And so it's you know, a situation that is much easier to handle. But yes, you sort of want to visualize that whole process with the worst in the case scenario. You want to prepare for everything that you can. And then I think as you mentioned, you know, a couple of other things, like your why, what's the the reason why you want to do that, like the importance of that, like what's in it for you to give you like the motivation and the energy and the excitement, right? What are you trying to create? And then ultimately those, you know, small steps, like okay, I remember when I wanted to jump out of the airplane, you know, do my first parachute, like a jump. I think a week before I started freaking out. I was literally uh feeling anxiety being nowhere near the plane. And I would I I said to myself at that moment, you're just gonna take it one step at a time. So right now you're nowhere near the plane. So, you know, there is no reason to be afraid. Then as I approach the experience, I'm like, okay, I'm just getting dressed, I'm just driving to the place, I'm just getting onto the plane, I'm just sitting on this bench and you know, being stripped to that guy. And then it's like, you know, just one second of fear and you're flying.

SPEAKER_00 47:09

Yeah. That's awesome. So you just right here, right now, you can deal with it what's directly in front of you.

SPEAKER_02 47:16

Exactly. You know, it's sort of like those blinders they put on horses so they don't get scared of all the staff because very often, as you said, your mind will try to like sort of grasp the whole picture just to have better sort of hold of things, but it's not always good for your emotional and mental state to actually deal with the situation. And what I learned also from Navy SEALs, they called it the skill compartmentalization. So basically, in life in general, if you want to deal well with situation in hand, very often you need to actually close your perspective so you only deal with that thing that is in front of you versus trying to grasp the whole thing and deal with every single step that is coming at you.

SPEAKER_01 48:00

So awesome, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:02

So that I found to be uh very helpful, and the same, like you know, with with my clients as well. Like, okay, what do we need to deal with now? And that's the whole thing, right?

SPEAKER_01 48:12

Awesome.

SPEAKER_02 48:12

No, no, but that being said, you know, I have still a few questions for you. Uh so thank you for asking me a question as well. You know, high performance psychology is actually the thing that I'm I think the most passionate about, but because I feel like if you win the game here, you can win any game outside in the outside world. So the question is first, what is the question that you are not asked, but wish people would ask you more often?

SPEAKER_00 48:54

Maybe it's along the lines of like how yeah, maybe it is along the lines of like the stuff I want fear, like how do you how do you have the courage to do it? Because a lot of people just assume that I don't get scared, and a lot of people just assume that it comes naturally, but I actually get like so scared. So like yeah, maybe how like what's it like to be so scared and what's it like to still build the courage to to step up to that, you know, because most people think oh I'm just gonna paddle out now and go surf a huge wave.

SPEAKER_02 49:34

So yeah, what maybe tell us about this experience? Like, how does it feel from if from the inside out, right? To to be that scared, to you have that fear that's probably quite strong, you know, go speaking of what you do, and and still do it, being able to do what you do.

SPEAKER_00 49:53

Well, yeah, so I have all of these things that kind of get me to a place, the preparation, the visualization, the self-talk, all of the past experience and everything, but then there's still a big gap that I would take this leap of faith, and yeah, to uh for me, I uh I pray and I really feel like God helps me a lot, like he meets me very, very powerfully. And yeah, when I'm feeling super vulnerable and I don't I just need need extra, you know, need extra faith. So yeah, but it it's also it it's so uncomfortable being in those places, and and but I think it's also just it's so important for us as humans to be in those vulnerable moments and it's just so real. And uh and yeah, you can you can almost feel yourself kind of growing in that while you experiencing it the the those moments where you're just touching the edge, touching the edge of your potential, or the fear is just so overwhelming, but you're still able to like know that there's a purpose in this, yeah. Like, yeah, just going back to that one experience when I was sitting in the in the my tent about to go surf like 60-foot waves in in Hawaii, and I was surrounded, it was still dark outside, and I could hear the waves thundering 10 kilometers away at Jaw's. Like I knew there were huge waves waiting for me when the sun came up. I needed to go down there and surf these huge waves, and I just was so terrified and jet-lagged and surrounded by so much vulnerability. But I also realized, like my my one friend told me, it's it's a privilege to feel pressure. And yeah, I guess that's really where the diamonds are made, right? And and I just I just felt like in that moment, in that vulnerability, I thought this is like exactly where I'm supposed to be, and this is what I what I actually need right now, is to just be so stretched, but surging forward, I'm taking the steps and I'm still gonna go do this thing. Yeah, it was like actually a privilege to move go through that and then reflect on it, how how amazing that experience was. And I and I think that a lot of yeah, a lot of us, we don't take ourselves to those places where we're super, super stretched. Like maybe we overworked in another sense, you know, but and overwhelmed with with life.

Faith, Family, Legacy, And Closing

SPEAKER_00 52:15

But I think we often don't take ourselves to the edge of our of our potential within our passion. Yeah, it's and it's a very special place to to go to where we yeah, we really, really stretched.

SPEAKER_02 52:27

Yeah, I guess you know what I'm hearing is you're able to overcome that because what you feel on the other side, and I feel like what that's what hooks you is that sense of being the most alive and on purpose and being like this in the right place at the right time and doing exactly what you're meant for.

SPEAKER_01 52:46

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:49

And you know that potential, like it's so related. It's the mission of my life is to help to people to unlock more of their potential. And what drives me personally is like that feeling of tapping into that a little bit more with every I don't know, fear full experience that I choose to take on. But that's the like where you feel the most alive. I can so relate to that. Um but another you know question that I wanted to ask you, given again what what you do and what you've been through, and um, you know, you're so young still, like do you ever think about sort of the end of your life or the ultimate vision of your life? Or let's say you're 90, what what is good life for you from that point of view? You're looking back at you know all your experiences that you're still to go through. Like, what do you think needs to be there for you to say, hey, I lived a good life?

SPEAKER_00 53:51

Yeah, I do actually. I my my brother passed away two years ago, and that was like quite a big wake up of how short life can be and how precious life is. And yeah, when you come so close to to death, it really does make you think a lot about what you want to do with your life. The first things that it really encouraged me to do was actually not performance and surfing, but more just like to have good relationships with my family and my my wife and my kids and my friends. So that was like a really important thing for me was like if there's if there's I think that our relationships in life are the most important things, and yeah, I always say for me in my life, God first, family second, surfing third, you know. So yeah, it it's I think it's uh what that question you're asking is so important to take ourselves to the end of our lives, and what's what what is what if we look back, what's gonna be a good life, you know, and I do think about that. And I think if I can inspire people to to ride their big waves, that would be a really cool thing, and and help a lot of people. I really want to encourage people to be able to like break those chains of fear of failure, fear of not being enough. Because when I was younger, I would often surf to not fall off my board, I would surf to not fail people's expectations, and there was this radical ceiling on my performance. I should have been surfing and shining, but I was surfing down here and because I was gripped by this fear of what other what other people thought of me, and yeah, I think there's there's there's a a scripture that says that the devil comes to steal, kill, and destroy, but I've come that they may have life and life to the full. And I feel like fear is something that robs us of so much in our lives. And if I could help to help people to look in and shine a bit of light into that fear and help them to live a bigger life, I think that I would be pretty stoked.

SPEAKER_02 56:05

Amazing. What a great vision. I think it's also a good good time to maybe finish our podcast and yeah, to to get on with living our big lives, writing our big ways. Matt again, thank you so much for the interview and for I'm sure inspiring more people to approach their life in a bigger way and to unlock more of their potential and to do the things that they're fearful of. As maybe uh the the last message or something that you would like uh our listeners to uh you you would like our to leave our listeners with, like what's maybe the message or an action step, or yeah, anything as a parting.

SPEAKER_00 56:52

Uh something that's maybe at the forefront of my mind would just be go and define what your big wave is that you need to ride, and then start taking steps towards that. And that'll help you to yeah, like riding that big wave is probably what's gonna really give you that sense of purpose. So yeah, what is that?

SPEAKER_03 57:15

Yeah, no, well, yeah, what what a good question to finish with.

SPEAKER_02 57:21

Well, and the very last question is where do you want people to go to you to connect with your message, to learn more about your work, to follow your journey? What are the best places that we'll link in show notes?

SPEAKER_00 57:31

Thank you. I most of my media goes out through my Instagram, so it's Matt Bromley Surf. And also have a YouTube channel, which is also Matt Bromley Surf. So that's probably a place where you can see everything that's going on.

SPEAKER_02 57:44

Amazing. Yeah, and we'll link that in the show notes. And thank you so much again, Matt, for inspiring so many people again to live bigger lives on the and discover more of their purpose on the other side of the earth. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 57:58

Thank you, Angela. It was great to chat.